WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:12.240 To have a short look on the agenda, some quick personal effects, I want to highlight the 00:12.240 --> 00:17.480 handed as a mission statement of the handnet, because it's very important. 00:17.480 --> 00:26.120 Give you a short introduction for a handnet in a nutshell, and we'll give you some ideas about 00:26.120 --> 00:33.800 how a handnet has evolved, what the pitfalls have been, and what Dr. David for mitigation. 00:33.800 --> 00:40.720 And I wanted to discuss a little bit about how a handnet can evolve further. 00:40.720 --> 00:45.200 So some personal effects, so my name is Jan Toshewski, my course on a Statue of 18 November 00:45.200 --> 00:46.680 by Koleff November. 00:46.680 --> 00:54.000 I am licensed since 1997, getting old, obviously, and I'm the VHF Manager of the German 00:54.080 --> 00:56.760 Emeterator Club, the DASC. 00:56.760 --> 01:02.760 You may know, I'm a member of the German IP coordination team for handnet. 01:02.760 --> 01:08.320 My colleagues are Eckberg, DD9QP, and Thomas, the online SAU. 01:08.320 --> 01:13.680 So together, we run the IP allocations for handnet in Germany. 01:13.680 --> 01:18.560 In the professionalist systems engineer at Schrodingschwarzen Munich, you may know that 01:18.640 --> 01:25.520 we do some measurement devices quite expensive, but it's nice gear to have on the DASC 01:25.520 --> 01:27.520 if you want to play with. 01:27.520 --> 01:32.400 And my family, I have three boys, they are all now under 10 years old, so eating up 01:32.400 --> 01:37.080 all of my time, but I finally made it at least to foster them. 01:37.080 --> 01:39.880 And of course, I love Levi. 01:39.880 --> 01:45.600 My location is to read November 590, but you'll get it's a Nürnberg. 01:45.600 --> 01:49.640 OK, so handnet, the mission statement. 01:49.640 --> 01:54.240 I think the mission statement is really important to understand what the project is about. 01:54.240 --> 01:56.720 And if it is cash about, how can you do this? 01:56.720 --> 01:57.720 Can you do that? 01:57.720 --> 02:03.600 I always reflect, is this the right way in terms of the mission statement? 02:03.600 --> 02:07.440 So the mission of the handnet is to build a maintainer European, or even larger, 02:07.440 --> 02:08.480 let's see. 02:08.480 --> 02:15.360 TSPIP-based radio only network for a moderator community, providing IPN to end connectivity. 02:15.400 --> 02:18.120 So everybody knows, Nat is evil. 02:18.120 --> 02:23.520 I don't know what the expression is coming from, but somebody created this. 02:23.520 --> 02:26.840 And that's why we want to have these end-to-end communication. 02:26.840 --> 02:32.280 Because you can do a lot of things if you're able to reach the wisest from one 02:32.280 --> 02:38.600 and two at the other end without any strange nut in between. 02:38.600 --> 02:40.320 So handnet in a nutshell. 02:40.360 --> 02:45.640 So we're talking about a close community, unfortunately. 02:45.640 --> 02:53.440 So we are talking about an emitter radio network where you need to have a license 02:53.440 --> 02:54.640 to take part of it. 02:54.640 --> 02:59.800 So we need to make sure that if you want to use the network, 02:59.800 --> 03:02.880 you need to be a emitter radio operator. 03:02.880 --> 03:09.600 And I think there are a lot of ways nowadays to get a license for this. 03:09.600 --> 03:12.560 The RF backbone is on the six-centimeter band. 03:12.560 --> 03:18.160 So it's like five gigahertz or like Wi-Fi gear. 03:18.160 --> 03:20.640 And yeah, sometimes we have even for the backbone. 03:20.640 --> 03:24.440 We are using other frequencies who come to that later. 03:24.440 --> 03:30.080 The RF user access is typically on the third-centimeter band. 03:30.080 --> 03:35.040 So two dot, three gigahertz and even on six-centimeter. 03:35.080 --> 03:41.480 But you always need the line of sight, or typically you need it, 03:41.480 --> 03:46.560 or you're very nearby to the sight in order to use that. 03:46.560 --> 03:51.400 And as of today, we are using that infrastructure 90% of the time, 03:51.400 --> 03:53.560 but for the end, users to be honest. 03:53.560 --> 03:56.840 But we are using it for interconnection of amateur infrastructure, 03:56.840 --> 03:59.480 like amateur repeaters and so on. 03:59.480 --> 04:01.200 So this is the main thing. 04:02.160 --> 04:06.640 And many people try to get a way how to get the local repeater connected 04:06.640 --> 04:09.960 to the internet in order to, for example, 04:09.960 --> 04:15.280 feeding APS information to the internet, I.S. stream. 04:16.560 --> 04:21.200 So we offer, if you're suffering from that line of sight problem, 04:21.200 --> 04:24.640 then we're offering a VPN access. 04:24.640 --> 04:28.960 I will show this later on how to gain access to the network. 04:28.960 --> 04:33.960 And most of the time, people are using this for service activity 04:33.960 --> 04:37.960 of the repeaters or whatever you can find there. 04:37.960 --> 04:44.120 So actually, we are using the IPv4 address space from the globally unique IP 04:44.120 --> 04:46.880 space, 44128-10. 04:46.880 --> 04:50.920 It has been formally 44-8, so very large, 04:50.920 --> 04:55.240 but this even this portion of the network is large enough 04:55.240 --> 04:58.080 for getting everything inside. 04:58.080 --> 05:05.200 We are using the 16-bit and 32-bit private anonymous system numbers. 05:05.200 --> 05:09.000 You can see the RFCs here for our internal BGP routing. 05:09.000 --> 05:13.840 So all the network is using BGP only. 05:13.840 --> 05:16.880 We have some new domains since last year, 05:16.880 --> 05:18.640 we're using the domains here in the radio, 05:18.640 --> 05:20.320 and the cloud in the dot network. 05:20.320 --> 05:25.120 I will come to that what it is, and how we are going to use it. 05:25.120 --> 05:29.520 And of course, there is really much potential for further project on the application layer. 05:29.520 --> 05:31.680 And I'm really interested in that M17, 05:31.680 --> 05:34.560 what we just heard about data communication. 05:34.560 --> 05:38.080 Let's see whether this is somehow integrated. 05:38.080 --> 05:42.960 So here you can see the hemat map, 05:42.960 --> 05:47.200 or let's say part of the map, of course, you can scroll around the world, 05:47.200 --> 05:49.440 but you will not find too much there. 05:49.440 --> 05:55.680 You can see this is where we are dense on the German speaking area. 05:55.680 --> 06:02.320 It's not wide known to non-German speaking area, unfortunately. 06:02.320 --> 06:04.520 And this is maybe hopefully with this talk, 06:04.520 --> 06:08.000 they're beginning to expand. 06:08.000 --> 06:11.480 And this, the picture on the right inside, 06:11.480 --> 06:13.480 you see a typical hemat installation. 06:13.480 --> 06:19.080 And the funny point is that I gave the exactly a talk 10 or 11 years 06:19.080 --> 06:23.960 ago in the US using the same picture, because it didn't change too much. 06:23.960 --> 06:26.640 So we have for the user access, we have small devices, 06:26.640 --> 06:29.840 which are covering different directions, 06:29.840 --> 06:34.800 nauseous, nauseous, is rest, with 90 degrees beams, 06:34.800 --> 06:41.640 so that you can easily access the hemat site. 06:41.640 --> 06:44.160 And below you see the interlinks. 06:44.160 --> 06:46.200 So they have a very narrow bound beam, 06:46.200 --> 06:49.360 so that they can point to other handed infrastructure 06:49.360 --> 06:52.800 to have a good link. 06:52.800 --> 06:56.200 Yeah, on the left side you can see the UL for our platform. 06:56.200 --> 07:00.600 If you go to hamnatdb.net and click here on the map, 07:00.600 --> 07:03.880 this map will open, you can scroll in, you can zoom in, 07:03.880 --> 07:08.480 you can do a lot of tools inside, 07:08.480 --> 07:11.160 and you can play around with that. 07:11.160 --> 07:13.200 So what is the amazing thing? 07:13.280 --> 07:16.880 The amazing part, there are people trying to ask, 07:16.880 --> 07:18.560 what can I do with it? 07:18.560 --> 07:20.440 It's not me. 07:20.440 --> 07:22.640 I'm only interested in building up the infrastructure, 07:22.640 --> 07:27.200 and there are many people really trying to build up 07:27.200 --> 07:31.400 that RF only infrastructure for our ematerial infrastructure, 07:31.400 --> 07:35.640 and we don't care about what is going on on the network. 07:35.640 --> 07:38.800 So we are really focusing on building up the network 07:38.800 --> 07:43.080 and thinking in layers, say, okay, look, 07:43.080 --> 07:46.440 you have now here a nice network, use it. 07:46.440 --> 07:47.920 I'm not interested what you're doing, 07:47.920 --> 07:49.360 but you can do it. 07:49.360 --> 07:51.600 So this is really satisfying to me. 07:51.600 --> 07:55.680 You can see here a trace route from the southern part 07:55.680 --> 08:00.680 of Germany going from here over Austria, 08:01.400 --> 08:06.880 and then even up to the Norse coast or east coast of the Norse. 08:06.880 --> 08:08.120 Yeah. 08:08.120 --> 08:12.000 And as you can see, we have 28 hops, 08:12.000 --> 08:17.000 and can down up down to 85 milliseconds. 08:19.440 --> 08:21.160 Yeah, around trip time. 08:21.160 --> 08:23.360 So this is what amazes me, 08:24.800 --> 08:27.840 and there are even plenty of other users 08:27.840 --> 08:31.480 or administrators who like to build up the network, 08:31.480 --> 08:33.320 and just see, okay, trace route is working. 08:33.320 --> 08:34.160 Now we have a new link. 08:34.160 --> 08:35.200 Now we can interconnect, 08:35.200 --> 08:38.840 there we don't need to have internet anymore. 08:38.840 --> 08:42.080 For example, you see a little bit that problem here, 08:42.080 --> 08:47.080 that bit is Berlin, and still there are two last people 08:47.080 --> 08:49.920 interested or two last nice sites 08:49.920 --> 08:52.880 to connect Berlin to our main network. 08:52.880 --> 08:55.120 So actually, we're using a VPN, 08:55.120 --> 08:57.160 and if I'm talking about radio, 08:57.160 --> 08:58.560 I'm talking about the radio layer, 08:58.560 --> 09:00.480 which is really important. 09:00.480 --> 09:02.120 I'm talking about this, 09:02.680 --> 09:06.320 the project to connect everything by radio. 09:06.320 --> 09:08.000 But of course, we have some islands 09:08.000 --> 09:11.480 which we need to connect by VPNs. 09:11.480 --> 09:13.400 I want to talk a little bit about the involvement, 09:13.400 --> 09:16.480 so my personal case, who has been in 2009, 09:16.480 --> 09:18.680 locally, repeater has been connected 09:18.680 --> 09:21.800 from the university to the GV Tower in November, 09:21.800 --> 09:24.160 spectrum is crowded, 2.4 gigahertz, 09:24.160 --> 09:26.000 you can imagine 4 kilometers, 09:26.000 --> 09:29.040 it's quite too bad to operate. 09:29.040 --> 09:30.320 So the question was, 09:31.280 --> 09:35.760 can we use the 5 giga emitter spectrum with some more power 09:35.760 --> 09:39.400 to interconnect to this side, 09:39.400 --> 09:43.160 because our NPTEL is hosted there? 09:43.160 --> 09:45.640 And can't we use our global unique IP space, 09:45.640 --> 09:49.120 44th or 8, rather than VRC-1980 IP space, 09:49.120 --> 09:51.360 like 19268 and so on? 09:53.280 --> 09:55.320 And it turned out, yes, of course, we can. 09:55.320 --> 09:57.520 So the National Regulator approved our application 09:57.520 --> 10:00.000 for the 5 gigahertz channel. 10:00.000 --> 10:03.920 We have only 10 gigahertz channel bandwidth and Germany allowed. 10:03.920 --> 10:05.920 We started with 15 watts of ERP nowadays. 10:05.920 --> 10:09.080 We can run up to 1 kilowatt ERP. 10:11.200 --> 10:14.400 After talking to military because they are primary uses 10:14.400 --> 10:16.240 in that band. 10:16.240 --> 10:18.120 Of course, we switched them to network 44. 10:18.120 --> 10:22.080 IP space and promoted to do the same in other regions 10:22.080 --> 10:23.280 in Germany. 10:23.280 --> 10:26.720 So the idea was that everybody is building up their stuff 10:26.720 --> 10:31.840 in that unique IP space, so we can grow over time together 10:31.840 --> 10:33.960 and we don't need to re-number anything. 10:33.960 --> 10:35.920 That was at least the idea. 10:35.920 --> 10:37.960 So yeah. 10:37.960 --> 10:40.720 And of course, the Internet disconnected regions 10:40.720 --> 10:43.240 we have been connected by VPNs. 10:43.240 --> 10:46.800 Yeah, some pitfalls, let's say. 10:46.800 --> 10:48.600 So pitching versus routing. 10:48.600 --> 10:51.640 In Austria, there started some a little bit with a large ring, 10:51.640 --> 10:54.360 which is on layer two. 10:54.360 --> 10:55.680 But the problem was on layer two. 10:55.680 --> 10:58.960 If you build a wireless link over many hops, 10:58.960 --> 11:01.520 you have really problems to debug if things go wrong. 11:01.520 --> 11:06.240 So if you want to find out which, exactly, 11:06.240 --> 11:09.040 which link breaks from a user perspective, 11:09.040 --> 11:10.480 you're not able to do that. 11:10.480 --> 11:13.200 You need to have some interfaces. 11:13.200 --> 11:19.240 And that's why we switched over to normal layer three 11:19.240 --> 11:23.880 or IP hops transfer networks to solve that issue. 11:23.880 --> 11:28.040 So if you do a threshold from anywhere on the network, 11:28.040 --> 11:30.360 you can see each single rate you hop. 11:30.360 --> 11:34.360 And if things fail, you can see when it broke and tell, 11:34.360 --> 11:35.880 hey, you guys, here's something wrong. 11:35.880 --> 11:39.640 You need to check what's going on in your network. 11:42.480 --> 11:42.840 Yeah. 11:42.840 --> 11:45.920 So other best practices that we have are whole prefix 11:45.920 --> 11:46.880 for the whole side. 11:46.880 --> 11:48.360 If you talk about the hand inside, 11:48.360 --> 11:51.800 we have a site on a high building or high mountain. 11:51.800 --> 11:54.800 And we want to keep the routing tables small. 11:54.800 --> 12:00.120 So that's why we have one IP prefix for one site. 12:00.120 --> 12:03.400 And you split it internally in trustful, not trustful devices. 12:03.400 --> 12:08.120 So some of these devices are allowed to talk to the internet 12:08.120 --> 12:11.240 for example, local devices you have there. 12:11.240 --> 12:13.400 Or if you want to offer radio access, 12:13.400 --> 12:17.080 then you may think about, well, this is not a good idea 12:17.080 --> 12:20.880 to have access to the internet. 12:20.880 --> 12:22.680 OK, let's go to the routing protocols. 12:22.680 --> 12:24.920 We played a little bit. 12:24.920 --> 12:28.560 So the idea was that our IP allocation team said, 12:28.560 --> 12:31.120 this region can play with that routing protocol. 12:31.120 --> 12:33.840 You can do whatever you want. 12:33.840 --> 12:36.640 But over time, as I've seen, 12:36.640 --> 12:40.880 that the regions were built together. 12:40.880 --> 12:44.160 And then the first link between the regions came up. 12:44.160 --> 12:46.960 And then how do we interconnect this now? 12:46.960 --> 12:52.400 And so we need to do, yeah, we need to change the routing 12:52.400 --> 12:54.920 protocol on the borders. 12:54.920 --> 12:57.360 And the problem is, really, that you need to interact 12:57.360 --> 13:01.400 with every operator in a region to change things, 13:01.400 --> 13:04.160 if the topology changes on the network. 13:04.160 --> 13:05.520 And this was really annoying. 13:05.520 --> 13:10.200 And yeah, because if you talk to every one 13:10.200 --> 13:13.280 and you know people are people, and it's always 13:13.280 --> 13:16.920 hard to get everybody on the same page and to understand 13:17.160 --> 13:19.600 or you know you need to change the configuration, 13:19.600 --> 13:22.600 this was really a bad lesson. 13:22.600 --> 13:26.000 So the lesson here is we need to find a routing protocol, 13:26.000 --> 13:29.560 which is considering every single side 13:29.560 --> 13:33.160 as an absolutely independent side. 13:33.160 --> 13:38.320 And that's where EBGP has been chosen. 13:38.320 --> 13:39.760 So we were really thinking about it 13:39.760 --> 13:43.280 because EBGP is not the best way to do that. 13:43.280 --> 13:47.880 But finally, it turned out the pros are better 13:47.880 --> 13:51.840 than at the cons or the arguments to use this as higher. 13:51.840 --> 13:55.720 So we have there a 32-bit private A's end range. 13:55.720 --> 13:58.040 I mean, after six, nine, and six. 13:58.040 --> 14:01.640 So we have plenty of sides, which we coupled in the hand 14:01.640 --> 14:02.480 that right now. 14:02.480 --> 14:06.680 So 9 million will be, oh, is it 9 million? 14:09.240 --> 14:10.200 Yeah, 94 million. 14:10.200 --> 14:12.080 OK. 14:12.080 --> 14:17.560 So we have plenty of time to do that. 14:17.560 --> 14:20.120 So yeah, everything is side is fully independent. 14:20.120 --> 14:23.480 So we don't have any problems with the topology change. 14:23.480 --> 14:26.600 And only the direct, if you build up new links, 14:26.600 --> 14:29.840 then only the operators directly concerned with the new link 14:29.840 --> 14:32.200 will need to interact with the configuration. 14:32.200 --> 14:38.120 But the cons is that we cannot row back this decision. 14:38.120 --> 14:40.680 The routing protocol does only know 0 or 1. 14:40.680 --> 14:43.280 So it doesn't matter if you have a weak radio link, 14:43.280 --> 14:44.600 then you have a weak radio link. 14:44.600 --> 14:49.280 And if it's too bad, and they are alternative links, 14:49.280 --> 14:52.760 available, then it's not good to keep it running. 14:52.760 --> 14:56.080 So you really need to have a threshold where the link can be 14:56.080 --> 14:59.240 considered as a really good properly working link. 14:59.240 --> 15:01.320 And then you can keep it running, otherwise 15:01.320 --> 15:05.800 you need to turn it off, because it will disturb the whole 15:05.800 --> 15:07.680 transit on that one. 15:07.680 --> 15:09.280 And of course, the question is, does it scale? 15:09.280 --> 15:13.600 Because I have never seen so long AS hops in the internet 15:13.600 --> 15:14.680 to be honest. 15:14.680 --> 15:19.520 So if you try to get around the internet on the back bone 15:19.520 --> 15:23.520 of the internet, we'll not see that long AS pass, usually. 15:23.520 --> 15:27.560 So of course, it's maybe limited on 255, I don't know. 15:27.560 --> 15:29.920 But yeah. 15:29.920 --> 15:32.760 So up to now, we don't see any issues in this daily 15:32.760 --> 15:33.240 operation. 15:33.240 --> 15:36.240 It works quite well. 15:36.240 --> 15:38.200 For example, there's a hand inside, a hand inside 15:38.200 --> 15:41.080 is a part of the RF backbone. 15:41.080 --> 15:44.840 And it's usually running more, one of multiple RF links 15:44.840 --> 15:46.480 on the network. 15:46.480 --> 15:49.720 And yes, it can offer some services to you, like 15:49.720 --> 15:51.960 webcams, was a piece of whatever. 15:51.960 --> 15:53.840 And may offer our user access. 15:53.840 --> 15:56.040 This is not typical hand inside. 15:56.040 --> 15:56.720 And what is the hand? 15:56.720 --> 15:58.880 Users can connect to the hand it. 15:58.880 --> 16:02.280 Using that hand inside, it has radio gear pointed 16:02.280 --> 16:06.080 to the hand inside and get an IP address by DHCP 16:06.080 --> 16:07.080 protocol. 16:07.080 --> 16:09.320 Yeah, some people like to have static IP. 16:09.320 --> 16:12.320 So just call the operator of their tenant site and say, 16:12.320 --> 16:13.920 hey, I'm new to you. 16:13.920 --> 16:14.640 Here's my megator. 16:14.640 --> 16:18.080 Please give me a static IP here on the network. 16:18.080 --> 16:22.640 And of course, if you don't have line of size to a hand 16:22.640 --> 16:26.360 inside, then you need to make use of the hand that we 16:26.360 --> 16:28.640 pay in service. 16:28.640 --> 16:30.280 Yes. 16:30.280 --> 16:35.200 Well, this is a site in the central Germany. 16:35.200 --> 16:40.160 It's called the broken DBZHEX. 16:40.160 --> 16:42.960 And you can see here the adjacent channel 16:42.960 --> 16:43.960 interference problems. 16:43.960 --> 16:47.840 So if you have a lot of transmitters nearby, 16:47.840 --> 16:49.400 and you're like, like on a repeater, 16:49.400 --> 16:52.840 you cannot have a repeater without any filters. 16:52.840 --> 16:58.640 That's why, for example, we changed this antenna here, 16:58.640 --> 17:04.160 because the feet will have the other antennas around, 17:04.160 --> 17:06.120 even this one is changed now. 17:06.120 --> 17:09.400 This has an RF shield right around the feet. 17:09.400 --> 17:15.920 So that's isolated against each other and to have, yeah. 17:15.920 --> 17:20.040 This is a really challenging task to get this really 17:20.040 --> 17:21.400 working. 17:21.400 --> 17:23.560 So how can this be mitigated? 17:23.560 --> 17:25.520 You can do a frequency separation. 17:25.520 --> 17:27.000 Of course, we have limited spectrum. 17:27.000 --> 17:31.400 So we have 200 max of bandwidth and the 60-meter band 17:31.400 --> 17:32.640 depending on the country. 17:32.640 --> 17:37.120 You can use the whole 200 max, sometimes not. 17:37.120 --> 17:40.240 You can, of course, reduce the power. 17:40.240 --> 17:41.880 Usually you're interested in high speeds. 17:41.880 --> 17:45.720 So you look on a regular link that you 17:45.720 --> 17:48.360 reach the full modulation coding scheme in order 17:48.360 --> 17:51.200 to have the full capacity available. 17:51.200 --> 17:54.800 But if you're even above that enough margin 17:54.800 --> 17:56.160 that you can reduce the power, you 17:56.160 --> 17:59.400 then take back the power to avoid these issues. 17:59.400 --> 18:02.240 Or you use higher gain antennas. 18:02.240 --> 18:04.960 I know that many people on these sides 18:04.960 --> 18:06.840 have problems to install larger dishes, 18:06.840 --> 18:09.560 because the site owner say, well, it's got in large. 18:09.560 --> 18:12.480 It's got in huge. 18:12.480 --> 18:18.160 This is all for free for you, so don't use too much antennas. 18:18.160 --> 18:22.920 And yeah, sometimes physical separation is good. 18:22.920 --> 18:26.280 But as you have seen, this is a redone. 18:26.280 --> 18:37.800 And there's really hard to physically separate these things. 18:37.800 --> 18:40.000 OK. 18:40.000 --> 18:44.280 So yeah, as I said, the impact on the hand it is very large. 18:44.280 --> 18:48.920 If you have this turped link, because if you have such a high 18:48.920 --> 18:50.920 side and very good connected to hand it side, 18:50.920 --> 18:55.880 and traffic is passing through, then the beach 18:55.880 --> 18:58.320 is quite comfortable with that. 18:58.320 --> 19:02.600 It's telling the network, well, I'm a running link. 19:02.600 --> 19:06.520 But if soon as you put data on that, 19:06.520 --> 19:11.000 then you will have a problem because of other transmitters 19:11.000 --> 19:12.200 on the same side. 19:12.200 --> 19:14.560 So even if on large packages like if you want 19:14.560 --> 19:18.200 to have a real stream or large content, large data 19:18.200 --> 19:22.560 with M to U of 1500, you really run into issues 19:22.560 --> 19:27.360 because of the packets get chunked and then you need 19:27.360 --> 19:28.280 to take care. 19:28.280 --> 19:32.800 So please, if you have a problem like this, 19:32.800 --> 19:35.960 either explore the situation or sometimes 19:35.960 --> 19:40.760 it's even better to just don't establish that link. 19:40.760 --> 19:45.800 The capacity of that side is full. 19:45.800 --> 19:47.880 You have seen maybe on the map. 19:47.880 --> 19:53.600 Here is even some purple and some blue lines. 19:53.600 --> 19:57.600 And we don't even only use the amateur radio spectrum. 19:57.600 --> 19:59.600 We are making even use of other spectrum 19:59.600 --> 20:02.120 like public Wi-Fi stuff. 20:02.120 --> 20:07.320 And even 60 gigahertz equipment is quite nice nowadays 20:07.320 --> 20:10.560 to have high speed links or to, let's say, 20:10.560 --> 20:16.200 to interconnect links where you have these interference issues. 20:16.200 --> 20:19.760 For example, if you have only four or five kilometers 20:19.760 --> 20:24.760 long on such a high side, then just use some public Wi-Fi 20:24.760 --> 20:28.000 frequencies and make the configuration 20:28.000 --> 20:30.120 or make the established link. 20:33.680 --> 20:36.040 Net neutrality issues. 20:36.040 --> 20:41.040 So what we see very often is that on these B2P routers, 20:41.040 --> 20:45.520 it usually should act like a normal transit provider, 20:45.520 --> 20:51.480 but since everybody is learning how from scratch 20:51.480 --> 20:55.840 and the administrators don't want to just apply something 20:55.840 --> 20:58.200 that they want to learn, they want to, yeah, 20:58.200 --> 21:02.200 this is the whole part of it to learn how things are working. 21:02.200 --> 21:05.760 And sometimes they just didn't plan 21:05.760 --> 21:10.720 the standard configuration and then some nuts rules 21:10.720 --> 21:14.960 are still in the transit and it's really hard to track down 21:14.960 --> 21:20.120 if you have in the transit a nutting router in between. 21:20.120 --> 21:24.600 Or if the firewall has some modes for only established 21:24.600 --> 21:26.720 and related, there's a situation 21:26.720 --> 21:31.040 that we have asynchronous routing so that the package 21:31.040 --> 21:34.240 going forward is going another route 21:34.240 --> 21:36.000 than the package going back was. 21:36.000 --> 21:38.680 So that's creating issues on some firewalls. 21:38.680 --> 21:41.320 If there shouldn't be a firewall at all, 21:41.320 --> 21:43.680 at least in the backbone. 21:43.680 --> 21:47.360 So there were even some problems in the beginning 21:47.360 --> 21:49.480 that we have uncoordinated VPNs 21:49.480 --> 21:51.920 in between the sites, which is really bad 21:51.920 --> 21:54.480 because if you look on the map and you make a link 21:54.480 --> 21:59.600 between hamburger and Munich, you can transfer everything 21:59.600 --> 22:02.600 by radio, but this is not going to be used anymore 22:02.600 --> 22:04.000 because of the VPN tunnel. 22:04.000 --> 22:06.800 So we needed to interact and to, well, 22:06.800 --> 22:08.240 this is a radio project. 22:08.240 --> 22:10.560 We don't want to tunnel everything here. 22:10.560 --> 22:15.160 And so, and this was a problem in the beginning, 22:15.160 --> 22:16.800 but nowadays, it's not a problem. 22:16.800 --> 22:18.800 Everybody accepted at least in the SSL, 22:18.800 --> 22:21.880 in the German-speaking area, it's quite common 22:21.880 --> 22:24.480 that we don't have any issues anymore. 22:25.960 --> 22:29.080 Yeah, so now we come to a very interesting point 22:29.080 --> 22:32.120 that we have handed back bone capacity issues. 22:32.120 --> 22:35.960 Yeah, from the internet, usually the use of the internet 22:35.960 --> 22:40.400 thinks, oh, I have, my DSL has 50 megabits up and down, 22:40.400 --> 22:43.240 or let's say, up, down, 50 megabits. 22:43.240 --> 22:45.760 Why can't I see it on the handnet? 22:45.760 --> 22:49.480 So they don't understand that it's not being in the handnet. 22:49.480 --> 22:51.120 There is a backbone infrastructure behind, 22:51.120 --> 22:53.480 and if you want to have some data from handbook 22:53.480 --> 22:55.560 and you're setting a Munich, it takes time. 22:55.560 --> 22:58.560 It must cross all these back bones. 22:58.560 --> 23:00.280 It's not like on the internet, you click on it, 23:00.280 --> 23:00.920 and it's there. 23:00.920 --> 23:04.760 It's really neat and sand, what are you doing here? 23:04.760 --> 23:07.720 And what in the early days came up here 23:07.720 --> 23:11.840 is that a lot of VPN popped up in some regions, 23:11.840 --> 23:15.160 because people want to be nearby the infrastructure 23:15.160 --> 23:18.440 and locked by VPN into that network. 23:18.440 --> 23:20.920 The issue is here that if you have a lot of, 23:20.920 --> 23:25.640 and somebody says, hey, look, I have a new video stream in Munich, 23:25.640 --> 23:30.320 and people from Hamburg logging into a VPN provider in Hamburg, 23:30.320 --> 23:34.280 and they want to get all these data from Munich. 23:34.280 --> 23:38.920 So the question was, how can we free up the artifact 23:38.920 --> 23:46.920 on in terms of capacity by using so-called dual-homed handnet sites? 23:46.920 --> 23:52.400 We have one lag in the handnet and the other lag in the internet. 23:52.400 --> 23:55.560 So the hand cloud here has been born. 23:55.560 --> 23:59.600 What you can see here now is really a cloud infrastructure. 23:59.600 --> 24:02.240 You don't need to know much about the cloud inside. 24:02.320 --> 24:05.600 They show a little bit, but inside the cloud, 24:05.600 --> 24:08.400 it's more or less on the map. 24:08.400 --> 24:10.600 You have these blue icons. 24:10.600 --> 24:11.840 I have made them a little bit larger, 24:11.840 --> 24:13.560 so you can see them better. 24:13.560 --> 24:17.680 They have these dual-homed handnet sites, 24:17.680 --> 24:20.640 and they all maintain a VPN connection 24:20.640 --> 24:22.760 to this cloud service. 24:22.760 --> 24:26.560 And the key is now that the whole infrastructure, 24:26.560 --> 24:30.560 or the whole topology, the routing, 24:31.360 --> 24:33.520 will be transferred by VPN to this cloud. 24:33.520 --> 24:38.320 So this cloud always knows the best and fastest pass 24:38.320 --> 24:40.160 inside of the handnet. 24:40.160 --> 24:42.520 Everything is living in here. 24:42.520 --> 24:46.160 And this is the prefix we actually using. 24:46.160 --> 24:50.960 So everything inside that prefix or inside that network 24:50.960 --> 24:53.960 is making use of that technology. 24:53.960 --> 25:01.360 So we have run about 70 or 80 dual-homed systems in handnet. 25:01.360 --> 25:04.480 So as soon as you lock in here by the VPN user, 25:04.480 --> 25:06.840 by the way, this is the URL if you want to join. 25:06.840 --> 25:11.080 There are two ways I will show that later. 25:11.080 --> 25:14.120 So just click on it and you can see 25:14.120 --> 25:17.480 how you can join in the handnet on VPN 25:17.480 --> 25:21.680 if you don't have radio with you. 25:22.680 --> 25:25.120 And even we have some basic services. 25:25.120 --> 25:27.280 But of course, this is not the main mission. 25:27.280 --> 25:29.960 Again, about the mission, the mission is to build a radio network. 25:29.960 --> 25:36.480 But this project is only there to get rid of all these data, 25:36.480 --> 25:38.480 which is going to be passed on the RF, 25:38.480 --> 25:39.880 which we don't want to have there. 25:39.880 --> 25:44.160 So the idea is to get data which is supposed to go to the internet 25:44.160 --> 25:48.720 or coming from the internet on the quickest way out of the network. 25:48.880 --> 25:49.880 Yeah. 25:49.880 --> 25:55.080 So yeah, this is maybe what I just explained. 25:55.080 --> 25:56.280 Import or write from handnet. 25:56.280 --> 26:00.560 Yeah, export or write this, that prefix will not be. 26:00.560 --> 26:03.560 The internet handed into routing will not be influenced. 26:03.560 --> 26:05.760 This was the important part. 26:05.760 --> 26:08.800 And yeah, a shorter pass. 26:08.800 --> 26:11.800 And I think it's from the best connectivity. 26:11.800 --> 26:13.000 Yeah, got it. 26:13.000 --> 26:16.600 And this is, yeah, this is what you can see here. 26:16.600 --> 26:19.840 Of course, it's not a single, a single system. 26:19.840 --> 26:23.480 It is a system out of three. 26:23.480 --> 26:28.080 I think one in Berlin, one in Aachen, and one in Duysburg, 26:28.080 --> 26:30.840 which is interconnecting by other VPN tons, which is OSPF. 26:30.840 --> 26:31.120 And so on. 26:31.120 --> 26:31.960 So forget about that. 26:31.960 --> 26:35.080 This is not really important. 26:35.080 --> 26:35.960 It just works. 26:35.960 --> 26:38.600 Yeah, in that case. 26:38.600 --> 26:39.240 OK. 26:39.240 --> 26:44.120 So yeah, some key factors in general about SSL. 26:44.120 --> 26:45.160 It's a community project. 26:45.160 --> 26:49.800 So you need to find people contributing. 26:49.800 --> 26:53.360 And to get people on board, one of the principles we 26:53.360 --> 26:58.240 have seen is really worse to look at is keep it simple, stupid. 26:58.240 --> 27:03.760 The complex system, the more problems you will generate here. 27:03.760 --> 27:05.320 Make things transparent. 27:05.320 --> 27:08.920 Make a clear policy that people can understand. 27:08.920 --> 27:11.680 And give the power to the user so that they can select 27:11.680 --> 27:13.240 how to route your traffic. 27:13.240 --> 27:15.360 So that you have to have the power to decide 27:15.360 --> 27:18.960 that I want to use the radio, even if the radio is bad. 27:18.960 --> 27:21.640 And since we have now the new domains, 27:21.640 --> 27:25.920 we are trying to reflect this ideas into the main names 27:25.920 --> 27:32.400 so that you can select better how to use the resources. 27:32.400 --> 27:34.640 Yeah, just a quick overview. 27:34.640 --> 27:39.280 So we have some services on the same cloud. 27:39.280 --> 27:42.400 So the network is everything we do on the internet. 27:42.400 --> 27:45.240 So there's a link where you can see, unfortunately, 27:45.240 --> 27:47.840 still in German, so things are to do. 27:47.840 --> 27:51.640 So there are some services running on it. 27:51.640 --> 27:54.280 And yeah. 27:54.280 --> 27:57.000 So the connection from the hemids to the hemplot 27:57.000 --> 28:00.040 is available to many VPN tunnels, as we said. 28:00.040 --> 28:02.920 It doesn't matter if the current VPN tunnel will fail, 28:02.920 --> 28:08.440 because the new route, the new route will just take other RF 28:08.440 --> 28:09.480 tops. 28:09.480 --> 28:10.400 So this is the beauty. 28:10.400 --> 28:12.560 So if you contribute on the network, 28:12.560 --> 28:14.760 your service is getting much more stable, 28:14.760 --> 28:19.400 because if your local internet connection will break, 28:19.400 --> 28:22.800 or your local VPN tunnel to the hemplot will break, 28:22.800 --> 28:25.600 the system will automatically reroute 28:25.600 --> 28:29.680 to the nearest way to the same cloud thing. 28:29.680 --> 28:30.120 Yeah. 28:30.120 --> 28:33.160 So we get redundancy. 28:33.160 --> 28:35.320 Yeah, what else is possible on the hand-to-backbone? 28:35.320 --> 28:37.160 Well, it's an IP network. 28:37.200 --> 28:41.000 It can transport almost everything from HP and vice versa. 28:41.000 --> 28:43.240 Be just creative. 28:43.240 --> 28:45.320 It's just some examples. 28:45.320 --> 28:47.080 In the hembrated frame, which is often 28:47.080 --> 28:48.960 we usually show a two and a half megabits 28:48.960 --> 28:54.160 we just stream from DBZVHPS, which is almost 1000 kilometers 28:54.160 --> 28:58.160 if you count all the hops, lengths together. 28:58.160 --> 29:01.160 And it's fluent, usually. 29:01.160 --> 29:04.360 We provide access to web SDRs from the Alps 29:04.360 --> 29:08.920 and during that fair, or through a radio. 29:08.920 --> 29:10.720 Yeah, some regions that are interconnected 29:10.720 --> 29:12.840 all of their FM repeaters by that network. 29:12.840 --> 29:14.360 This is quite nice. 29:14.360 --> 29:17.360 And some regions run MCOM services on it, 29:17.360 --> 29:20.840 like they're even some projects where you have 29:20.840 --> 29:23.400 from the government, get some funding 29:23.400 --> 29:26.280 for making hardening the hand-to-site 29:26.280 --> 29:29.560 in terms of power outages. 29:29.560 --> 29:30.840 There's something to play, like, voiceover, 29:30.840 --> 29:34.200 a piece of stuff inside the hand-to-pump pump. 29:34.200 --> 29:38.880 So yeah, this is what we present in three to a half, usually. 29:38.880 --> 29:43.800 So you can see the optical fuel on the right bottom side 29:43.800 --> 29:48.480 and the hole of the fair on the left side and the parcel 29:48.480 --> 29:49.760 the network. 29:49.760 --> 29:53.760 Same here for the radio stream. 29:53.760 --> 29:55.040 Yeah. 29:55.040 --> 29:59.400 So this is the concentration, I have 50 minutes, so and good. 29:59.400 --> 30:03.120 We have the future revolvement of the timets. 30:03.120 --> 30:08.960 What you can see here now is, can you see what this is? 30:08.960 --> 30:10.080 I remember. 30:10.080 --> 30:12.000 It's Europe. 30:12.000 --> 30:14.760 Yeah, it's broken, yeah, I know. 30:14.760 --> 30:18.040 But this shows Europe in the late 90s. 30:18.040 --> 30:19.320 This is a map. 30:19.320 --> 30:23.280 There was some guy in Slovakia trying to get what 30:23.280 --> 30:26.800 we formally built in Picard Radio. 30:26.800 --> 30:28.760 And I can remember the times when I was young 30:28.760 --> 30:31.960 that I was able to sit in front of the PC, 30:31.960 --> 30:35.080 you remember that even internet was not there yet. 30:35.080 --> 30:37.720 Oh, well, not papity here, there. 30:37.720 --> 30:41.880 So sitting in front of the PC and trying to go down 30:41.880 --> 30:43.640 to Spain through the network. 30:43.640 --> 30:48.640 This was really a beauty to go through it and have fun. 30:48.640 --> 30:50.600 And you can see the speed. 30:50.600 --> 30:53.680 Well, it's better than I'm 17, isn't it? 30:53.680 --> 30:54.880 It's not. 30:54.880 --> 30:58.120 I apologize. 30:58.120 --> 31:00.840 But I'm looking forward to it to integrate maybe something. 31:00.840 --> 31:04.960 And the question is, yes, on 23 centimeter, 31:04.960 --> 31:07.840 you don't need that line of sight. 31:07.840 --> 31:11.040 You don't have that line of sight requirement. 31:11.040 --> 31:14.240 But even if you have good sight, I have a one link 31:14.240 --> 31:20.600 on 217 kilometers with minus 60 dBm and 50 megabits, 31:20.600 --> 31:21.200 both directions. 31:21.200 --> 31:22.720 So it's only a matter. 31:22.720 --> 31:25.400 Can you see each other? 31:25.520 --> 31:27.200 The question is, can we grow that large? 31:30.040 --> 31:32.760 So what do we need for further expansion? 31:32.760 --> 31:35.360 Of course, we need the sights. 31:35.360 --> 31:37.240 This is all the important thing. 31:37.240 --> 31:40.920 We need the sights where we can climb on top of mountain 31:40.920 --> 31:42.640 and put some stuff there. 31:42.640 --> 31:45.480 You need to have some buildings, high buildings where 31:45.480 --> 31:48.440 you are allowed to put some large dishes on it, 31:48.440 --> 31:49.760 or even smaller dishes. 31:49.760 --> 31:51.920 It really depends. 31:51.920 --> 31:53.520 We need some tools. 31:53.560 --> 31:56.600 We have some nice propagation tool in the hand of database, 31:56.600 --> 31:58.400 so you click on it, and you can quickly 31:58.400 --> 32:02.280 draw whether I have a line of sight between two sides. 32:02.280 --> 32:04.000 We have ready for another.com. 32:04.000 --> 32:05.120 We'll see that later, and of course, 32:05.120 --> 32:08.800 you need to have the IP resources, but this is all solved. 32:08.800 --> 32:11.720 So for example, I can do it even live, 32:11.720 --> 32:12.920 but time is running. 32:12.920 --> 32:16.640 So yeah, okay, I do it live. 32:18.640 --> 32:22.040 Someone was laughing, so that's challenging. 32:23.640 --> 32:24.480 Where are we? 32:24.480 --> 32:27.000 So this is Brussels here on the left hand side. 32:27.000 --> 32:33.000 This is Arhan from, let's say, go to this side. 32:33.000 --> 32:35.840 It's not too, and it. 32:35.840 --> 32:39.200 So you can see, so you can easily check, 32:39.200 --> 32:40.680 check whether you have a line of sight 32:40.680 --> 32:43.480 and even make a larger profile out of it. 32:43.480 --> 32:44.920 And forget about the tree. 32:44.920 --> 32:49.360 There are some measures you can take about the trees, yeah? 32:49.360 --> 32:50.920 All right. 32:50.920 --> 32:54.360 So it's really quick where you can check that. 32:56.960 --> 32:59.600 About the IP resources, AS numbers, 32:59.600 --> 33:01.560 and how to get an ended up length, 33:01.560 --> 33:03.320 if you need it by radio, VPN connections, 33:03.320 --> 33:05.120 please just contact me. 33:05.120 --> 33:06.440 I'm available on the email address, 33:06.440 --> 33:09.160 and even on my course line is available 33:09.160 --> 33:11.160 on all the messages out there. 33:11.160 --> 33:13.600 And there's even some quick stuff thing. 33:13.600 --> 33:16.680 So we thought about, okay, we have country allocations, 33:16.680 --> 33:18.400 but nowadays we even have some, 33:18.400 --> 33:21.240 let's say, global hand-to-project allocations. 33:21.240 --> 33:25.880 So we can simply allocate in a very easy scheme resource, 33:25.880 --> 33:27.480 so that you can immediately start 33:27.480 --> 33:31.520 if you have good sites and want to contribute on the network. 33:33.080 --> 33:36.080 Yeah, and these are the two uplink providers, 33:36.080 --> 33:40.720 calls for getting a hand net islands into the network. 33:42.280 --> 33:43.280 Applications. 33:44.760 --> 33:46.520 I have a personal backlog. 33:46.520 --> 33:49.400 So just imagine that in this hemp cloud thing, 33:49.400 --> 33:54.400 I have a CIPServer providing a CIPServer for phones, 33:55.840 --> 33:58.960 which you can connect on your radio. 34:00.520 --> 34:04.400 And if you have two CIPS clients, 34:04.400 --> 34:08.200 and I connect for usually know that these phones 34:08.200 --> 34:10.600 have one to three direct CIPS clients, 34:10.600 --> 34:13.800 where you can just click on that, which line to use. 34:13.800 --> 34:17.960 And it would be nice to have one line for peer-to-peer mode, 34:17.960 --> 34:19.880 so that you have the directory service, 34:19.880 --> 34:22.080 like the voice of a piece of indie hemp cloud. 34:22.080 --> 34:26.680 So you just using it for getting the information, 34:26.680 --> 34:29.120 which IP address has your partner, your own a call, 34:29.120 --> 34:31.200 or your device should call. 34:31.200 --> 34:34.880 And if you do that, then we can easily 34:34.880 --> 34:39.880 and quickly phone to each other either by radio only, 34:39.880 --> 34:41.480 if possible. 34:41.480 --> 34:43.040 And you can compare it afterwards. 34:43.040 --> 34:46.440 If you do the second supply, where the server is forcing 34:46.440 --> 34:48.800 that all the audio stream is not going past directly, 34:48.800 --> 34:52.520 but over the hemp cloud, on the VPN tunnel. 34:52.520 --> 34:54.880 So this is actually one of the projects 34:54.880 --> 34:57.720 which I'm trying to do in 2025. 34:57.720 --> 35:01.240 And of course, I have a lot of other further ideas, 35:01.240 --> 35:06.240 but as you can see, I hide them because of personal overload here. 35:06.240 --> 35:08.240 And of course, what are you at the DSC? 35:08.240 --> 35:09.800 I'm looking for inputs. 35:09.800 --> 35:14.800 So about RF access. 35:14.800 --> 35:18.600 I told you that line-of-sight is always necessary. 35:18.600 --> 35:26.600 Unfortunately, there are not too many solutions out there 35:26.600 --> 35:29.760 how to get around this. 35:29.760 --> 35:32.840 So we have on the 23 centimeter band, 60 max, 35:32.840 --> 35:35.000 still, even with scaleneo issues. 35:35.000 --> 35:37.960 So let's see how much we can still keep. 35:37.960 --> 35:39.880 But we could use standard RF, I guarantee, 35:39.880 --> 35:46.080 have transferred us to mix down a 5m chunk 35:46.080 --> 35:49.120 in order to use the 23 centimeter band. 35:49.120 --> 35:54.040 Or you have heard about this new packet radius project, 35:54.040 --> 35:57.560 maybe, and there's a solution for 70 centimeter. 35:57.560 --> 36:01.560 And soon, there will be something for 23 centimeter. 36:01.560 --> 36:02.560 This can be used. 36:02.560 --> 36:08.680 But it depends on our technology, how good it is. 36:08.680 --> 36:11.200 We have another project. 36:11.200 --> 36:14.320 We're running GSM, or GPRS, on 70 centimeter, 36:14.320 --> 36:16.960 thanks to Eric Osmocom. 36:16.960 --> 36:19.560 There's an implementation now available 36:19.560 --> 36:25.600 where you can build up a GSM system on home radio frequencies. 36:25.600 --> 36:28.240 And yes, of course, if we want to have speed, 36:28.240 --> 36:31.960 we need to have multi-slots implemented in action on. 36:31.960 --> 36:34.200 But of course, you always need to have some room 36:34.200 --> 36:35.920 for improvement. 36:35.920 --> 36:37.960 And some satellite things. 36:37.960 --> 36:39.960 We have the Q100 Transponder in there, 36:39.960 --> 36:43.440 there's one project from the same guy who's doing this NPR thing. 36:43.440 --> 36:47.240 And I think Daniel, your system is even described here. 36:47.240 --> 36:49.960 And I'm really interested in whether this can be turned out 36:49.960 --> 36:51.520 to a permanent solution, maybe. 36:51.520 --> 36:56.640 I have good context to the M-set people and maybe a good site, 36:56.640 --> 37:01.640 good spot where we can get the data into the handled network. 37:01.640 --> 37:05.840 And of course, we have some spectrum available 37:05.840 --> 37:09.920 in the Tengik band, which I would like to use, 37:09.920 --> 37:15.200 because I fear that if we don't use it, we lose it. 37:15.200 --> 37:17.360 We can see that all the commercials are eating up 37:17.360 --> 37:20.040 over our frequencies. 37:20.040 --> 37:22.920 So I want to use the Tengik help span. 37:22.920 --> 37:25.280 We have two links on Tengik help. 37:25.280 --> 37:29.960 We're making use of 160 max spentwas. 37:29.960 --> 37:32.880 There's plenty of pentwas available, 500 max, 37:32.880 --> 37:34.880 but the gear is very expensive right now. 37:34.880 --> 37:41.880 So we actually pay two k for one end, plus antenna. 37:41.880 --> 37:43.640 So this is not easy to do. 37:43.640 --> 37:45.880 But of course, the same thing applies, 37:45.880 --> 37:48.840 like if we have transmetors and go from standard Wi-Fi gear 37:48.840 --> 37:52.040 up to 10 gigs, this would be a beauty. 37:52.040 --> 37:54.440 Yeah, other stuff to explore. 37:54.440 --> 37:58.880 We could even look about the terahats, so laser links. 38:00.040 --> 38:01.280 They are high speed, of course. 38:01.280 --> 38:03.800 As you know, that space exists playing around in space 38:03.800 --> 38:05.360 with that. 38:05.360 --> 38:07.480 Of course, they don't have any archie in, 38:07.480 --> 38:10.800 or some other molecules, as they're facing the Earth. 38:10.800 --> 38:15.440 So of course, we know that laser links are suffering 38:15.440 --> 38:20.880 from fork, but we don't have any service-level equipment, 38:20.880 --> 38:22.760 don't do we. 38:22.760 --> 38:28.880 So even if you just reach 90% and this is good in our case, 38:28.880 --> 38:31.560 the commercial, you can forget about that. 38:31.560 --> 38:36.400 But this makes me think about why not using laser links 38:36.400 --> 38:38.360 on a terrestrial level. 38:38.360 --> 38:41.000 And the feedback can, if fork is there, 38:41.000 --> 38:44.680 and we use the existing in five weeks infrastructure 38:44.680 --> 38:47.080 as a backup. 38:47.080 --> 38:48.920 Playing a little bit about with LTE, 38:48.920 --> 38:52.520 there's a time division duplex band. 38:52.520 --> 38:54.120 It's called B40. 38:54.120 --> 38:55.800 On the surgery centimeter band, 38:55.800 --> 39:00.760 so 2,300 to 2,400, it's overlapping with the M2 radio 39:00.760 --> 39:02.280 allocation. 39:02.280 --> 39:07.160 And we're actually looking for an X&B for a 40T radio. 39:07.160 --> 39:11.600 If you have some context, let me know. 39:11.600 --> 39:14.600 And some pure software implementation could be 39:14.600 --> 39:17.560 from SRS. 39:17.560 --> 39:21.480 SRS around project, so that we can maybe even start with 5G. 39:21.480 --> 39:25.200 But yeah, there are a lot of, well, of course, 39:25.200 --> 39:26.560 it's talking to your phone. 39:26.560 --> 39:32.080 So the distance would not be solved, the distance issues. 39:32.080 --> 39:35.760 And we can play with open Wi-Fi, if you have seen that. 39:35.760 --> 39:37.880 And I think this was the last slide I have five minutes left. 39:37.880 --> 39:39.520 APPLAUSE 39:39.520 --> 39:41.520 APPLAUSE 39:47.520 --> 39:48.040 Thank you. 39:48.040 --> 39:49.520 So any questions, please? 39:49.520 --> 39:52.800 Yeah, but for over Wi-Fi, you might as a misplug the mega wide, 39:52.800 --> 39:56.000 so it will fit exactly 70% of the time. 39:56.000 --> 40:00.720 Well, there are quarter and half rate and quarter rate chips. 40:00.720 --> 40:02.000 So there are even some chips, 40:02.000 --> 40:04.560 which could go down to 2.5 max. 40:04.560 --> 40:08.240 There are terrorist chipsets, 600, 600, blah, blah, blah. 40:08.240 --> 40:10.240 So there are some projects where you can narrow it. 40:10.240 --> 40:13.320 And it's standard is 10 max and 5 max. 40:13.320 --> 40:17.840 On the 80, 11, a X, it's not available anymore. 40:17.840 --> 40:22.040 But if you have some oligas, you can just tell the radio 40:22.040 --> 40:25.960 to go down to 5 max. 40:25.960 --> 40:26.960 OK. 40:26.960 --> 40:27.960 Another question. 40:27.960 --> 40:28.960 Another question? 40:28.960 --> 40:30.600 I have a question. 40:30.600 --> 40:33.120 How have you got the tune that needs to be time hours 40:33.120 --> 40:35.040 or enable the directional hardware detection 40:35.040 --> 40:40.440 or something like this, the noise that the whole thing has. 40:40.440 --> 40:44.920 Well, of course, we actually, I said, keep it simple stupid. 40:44.920 --> 40:48.920 So the idea is always, if you have a sitting in front of a configuration, 40:48.920 --> 40:52.840 I will have a look at the configuration. 40:52.840 --> 40:56.760 The configuration is good if you don't touch it as much as possible. 40:56.760 --> 41:01.360 So there's BFD, as I have heard. 41:01.360 --> 41:02.880 And we can play with that. 41:02.880 --> 41:06.320 We didn't investigate so far because we're concentrating on the mission. 41:06.320 --> 41:08.960 So that's why we didn't look at this too much. 41:08.960 --> 41:11.560 But yes, if a link is getting weak, 41:11.560 --> 41:15.000 we would like to see it more faster than the three minutes 41:15.000 --> 41:18.920 limit, I think, which actually is BFD standards. 41:18.920 --> 41:27.120 Yeah, but the thing is, to make a large change 41:27.120 --> 41:29.360 and you don't have full control of network, 41:29.360 --> 41:31.640 means that, well, can you change it? 41:31.640 --> 41:33.040 Can you change it? 41:33.040 --> 41:37.800 So it takes time until we will decision the propagates 41:37.800 --> 41:39.480 through the whole network. 41:39.480 --> 41:42.280 There was another question? 41:42.360 --> 41:44.080 Yeah, please. 41:44.080 --> 41:46.840 Maybe something you might be interested in is, of course, 41:46.840 --> 41:50.160 especially point points in and over a Q100. 41:50.160 --> 41:57.400 We did some testing with a hand from Savakya on the custom protocol 41:57.400 --> 42:00.480 for any over QPSK. 42:00.480 --> 42:04.840 And so we reached a few megabits per second 42:04.840 --> 42:06.120 with a custom protocol. 42:06.120 --> 42:08.720 And so that could be used instead of, 42:08.720 --> 42:12.200 is it somehow broad on the ULA available where 42:12.200 --> 42:14.640 can we talk about it or, yeah, I can send you a link. 42:14.640 --> 42:15.200 OK, great. 42:15.200 --> 42:16.640 So I can edit later. 42:16.640 --> 42:19.120 Thank you very much. 42:19.120 --> 42:22.560 The other question for the, from the matrix channel, 42:22.560 --> 42:25.640 are you so is asking you what about IPBs? 42:25.640 --> 42:27.240 Yes, I was waiting for this question. 42:27.240 --> 42:32.520 OK. 42:32.520 --> 42:36.200 Again, the thing is, I am really concentrating on the mission. 42:36.200 --> 42:40.040 I know that we are trying to solve a problem 42:40.040 --> 42:41.200 which we actually don't have. 42:44.200 --> 42:48.000 Yeah, well, slash 10 is really hard to deplete. 42:48.000 --> 42:48.960 Well, it depends on you. 42:48.960 --> 42:51.000 Yeah, of course, if you're far from. 42:51.000 --> 42:53.120 But yes, we have looked at it. 42:53.120 --> 42:57.000 We were thinking about some ways how to do that. 42:57.000 --> 43:00.840 I think even though you had a proposal written, 43:00.840 --> 43:02.000 it's just not my project. 43:02.000 --> 43:03.640 So you're absolutely invited. 43:03.640 --> 43:06.160 It's a community thing. 43:06.480 --> 43:12.120 If it's low, low effort for me to take part on your idea, 43:12.120 --> 43:16.000 feel free to contact us and to push things. 43:16.000 --> 43:18.240 Of course, if you want to have a large IPv6 43:18.240 --> 43:20.040 prefix, that's just the other thing. 43:20.040 --> 43:22.480 If you want to have the large one, you need to coordinate 43:22.480 --> 43:25.480 in a worldwide system. 43:25.480 --> 43:29.120 And to really have everyone in the world to accept that, 43:29.120 --> 43:32.640 if you come and say, hey, I have a slash 40 for the whole world, 43:32.640 --> 43:35.760 then whoa, am I slash 40 is even better? 43:35.760 --> 43:37.800 So they have accepted the same problem. 43:37.800 --> 43:40.120 So you need to have a slash 24 or something 43:40.120 --> 43:43.120 in order to get it approved by the emincerator community 43:43.120 --> 43:46.200 to have a single IPv6 prefix. 43:46.200 --> 43:48.080 There are other ideas like, from Daniel there, 43:48.080 --> 43:50.440 where you have a list of chunks where you have these 43:50.440 --> 43:53.720 prefixes just collected and say, this is belonging to emincer 43:53.720 --> 43:54.640 or not. 43:54.640 --> 43:58.440 So there are many ways around how to do that. 43:58.440 --> 44:04.000 But yeah, again, it's not the mission, it's not my mission, actually. 44:04.000 --> 44:04.840 Further questions? 44:04.840 --> 44:08.320 Well, I have 30 seconds. 44:08.320 --> 44:09.320 Yes, please. 44:09.320 --> 44:11.960 So it's very advanced, like, then for the half of the board, 44:11.960 --> 44:14.240 like, you know, I mean, another of nodes 44:14.240 --> 44:16.000 and he comes to you, it's something like more real work. 44:16.000 --> 44:19.080 Then can you look at this being, like, 44:19.080 --> 44:20.960 starting, like, a full work Internet, 44:20.960 --> 44:23.520 just in case something would happen to the world. 44:23.520 --> 44:24.880 Yes. 44:24.880 --> 44:33.240 It is absolutely a system which can be used for emergency communication 44:33.240 --> 44:35.120 and we're even getting support, as I said, 44:35.120 --> 44:35.960 from the government. 44:35.960 --> 44:37.760 They're even some projects inside and Germany, 44:37.760 --> 44:43.120 where you have, let's say, all these m-com guys 44:43.120 --> 44:49.400 trying to get in touch and even to collaborate somehow. 44:49.560 --> 44:51.320 Of course, it's a bit a little bit tricky 44:51.320 --> 44:56.160 about the emincerator regulations, but technical, yes. 44:56.160 --> 45:00.280 And you can adapt even regulations, if necessary. 45:00.280 --> 45:02.000 Okay, thank you very much again. 45:02.000 --> 45:03.000 Thank you. 45:03.000 --> 45:04.000 Thank you. 45:04.000 --> 45:06.000 Thank you. 45:06.000 --> 45:07.000 Thank you.